[00:00:00]

Ches Crosbie
You have the choice of swearing on the Bible. I believe there’s one on the desk.

Pastor Jason McVicar
I’ll just let my “yes” be “yes.” So you just ask me and I’ll say, “yes.” I don’t need a Bible to—

Ches Crosbie
All right. So I’ll just follow the usual format I have been following and ask you to affirm that you will tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth.

Pastor Jason McVicar
Yes.

Ches Crosbie
Thank you.

Criss Hochhold
Good afternoon.

Pastor Jason McVicar
How are you?

Criss Hochhold
Can you please state your full name for us?

Pastor Jason McVicar
Sure. My name is Pastor Jason McVicar.

Criss Hochhold
Where do you live?

Pastor Jason McVicar
Just outside of Charlottetown, Prince Edward Island.

Criss Hochhold
And what do you do for a living?

Pastor Jason McVicar
I’m a pastor.

Criss Hochhold
Pastor McVicar, you are living in PEI at this time. Where were you prior to moving to PEI?

Pastor Jason McVicar
Well, I’m from New Brunswick, and for 11 years I did ministry in New Brunswick Fredericton.

Criss Hochhold
You were a pastor at a ministry in Fredericton?

Pastor Jason McVicar
Yes, for 11 years.

Criss Hochhold
For 11 years? Can you tell me more about your time at the church in Fredericton, please? And specifically, I’m interested in incidents that happened to you regarding your status.

Pastor Jason McVicar
Sure.

Pastor Jason McVicar
With regard to COVID and the pandemic and everything, my experience is pretty unique in that I minister to a lot of people who— The church existed in a low-income area. When the mandates all came rolling out and the lockdowns came, there were a lot of people who were adversely affected by all that stuff.

And so I was ministering to a lot of people and people are in really hard ways. I was dealing with people who were struggling with suicide. I was struggling with domestic abuse from the lockdowns, people just being locked up together—it was mostly older people who were doing that—and extreme loneliness from the older community as well. So I’d seen firsthand kind of the negative effects of all the policies that were coming down from the government. It never really affected me. Our family was fine. We just rolled with the punches as they came.

It wasn’t until the end of September when the mandates for the vaccine came into effect. And Dorothy Shepherd, on behalf of the Government of New Brunswick, had approached the faith communities and had approached churches. And basically, in an effort to get the vaccine uptake to 90 per cent, they wanted churches to promote the vaccines among their congregation. They encouraged vaccine mandates. Then the government had implemented a policy that said if churches would require proof of vaccination, they could operate full capacity—no restrictions, no masking, nothing. But if they weren’t going to implement the proof of vaccines, then they would have to go back to their operational plans.

And that’s when my experience went from ministering to people who were struggling with these different mandates and these different policies to just being on the receiving end of some of those negative outcomes. It all began October 3rd. So short, but very little, I’d say eight days after Dorothy Shepherd had approached the churches, I had received a letter from our board basically making my vaccination status the new measure of my ministry and my character. And they had included in this letter— Well, they had indicated that the vast majority of the congregation and the vast majority of the board felt that vaccination was the only way out of this pandemic. And that my opinions with regard to the whole pandemic, but mostly my refusal to receive the vaccine, was causing huge troubles in the church.

And I’ll just read you some quotes to give you an indication of how they redefined—not redefined, they just made it the measure of my ministry and my character, the fact that I wouldn’t get vaccinated. So in terms of ministry, they said, quote—

[00:05:00]

“That I was exercising poor judgment and a lack of discernment, that I had created deep wounds in your flock, that I had created barriers to you being able to teach, nurture and guide, that it was a lapse of wisdom, that it was a portent of future errors that could affect you on the pulpit, that it was an erosion of trust and confidence, that it was creating division in the congregation, and that there was a need to repair and rebuild the congregation.”

Criss Hochhold
Just for the Commission, the document Pastor McVicar was referring to has been entered into electronic evidence and will be available to you [Exhibit TR-0012l].

Pastor Jason McVicar
In terms of my character, the letter went on to say that I was placing my physical health before that of the congregation, and that I was placing my own physical health before that of my own children and the children in the congregation.

Criss Hochhold
Before this, Pastor McVicar, I just want to ask a question. Because you had been there at that for about 10 years?

Pastor Jason McVicar
Yes. Well, this was actually the anniversary of my 11th year, that all this was happening. But it was 10 years. It was really good years. No conflicts, no— like, there just there were no issues whatsoever.

Criss Hochhold
So the board now attacked your character rather significantly, and—

Pastor Jason McVicar
They just redefined it. Because 10 years, it was fine. Like, had a great relationship with the congregation, good relationship with the board. It wasn’t until my refusal to be vaccinated that suddenly my character and my ministry took on this whole new light.

Criss Hochhold
So in the 11 years prior, you’ve taken this parish, this community of faith and you’ve built it. And what did you build it from, and how did that come about?

Pastor Jason McVicar
Well, they’d had a tumultuous period where it was basically just a mass exodus of their congregation. And I had come about two years after that had happened and they were down to—I’m not even sure—it was around 20 people or something like that. And over the years we were just rebuilding, and we had gotten it up to— Well, just prior to the pandemic it was around 45-50 people. And then the pandemic came and just had crazy swings after the pandemic.

Criss Hochhold
So you had a significant increase from when you initially took it over until the end.

Pastor Jason McVicar
Yeah, we were making good progress.

Criss Hochhold
You said— During that time, had the board ever had any other sanctions or complaints about how you led the ministry, how you interacted with the members?

Pastor Jason McVicar
No, nothing formal. There is, like, differences of opinions about little things, but it’s all— No, nothing formal. No reprimands, no anything. Literally no conflict with congregation.

Criss Hochhold
So no poor judgment and no lack of discernment?

Pastor Jason McVicar
No. Everything that was laid out in this letter was purely related to the vaccine, had nothing to do with my actual ministry.

Criss Hochhold
When you say it was purely in the letter—actually, it had nothing to do with the ministry.

Did the board present you with any evidence from the congregation to support the allegations that they’ve levied against you?

Pastor Jason McVicar
No. Well leading up to it, I wasn’t shy about my opinions outside of the church setting about how I felt about all these restrictions and how I felt about the vaccine. And so, we disagreed on that. And there was constant pressure— Once the vaccines came into effect, there was constant pressure from the board, especially for me to get the vaccine. And I refused for the longest time.

It was mostly just because I was so healthy, all the evidence that I had seen in terms of pure numbers. I didn’t watch TV, so I wasn’t really subject to all the fear-mongering that was going on. I went to the government website and just read the numbers. So I made my choice based on those numbers. So the pressure was constant. It wasn’t until the government kind of approached the churches that it went from just them disagreeing with— I had no idea that they felt this. I knew they disagreed with me and I knew that it was frustrating for them.

They had required three things of me in this letter. They said that they wanted me to outline steps that I’ll take to create a path to healing the wounds described above. And they wanted me to detail how I would perform my pastoral duties.

[00:10:00]

And they wanted me to elaborate on what I could do to ensure the congregation’s physical health—again, because I’m unvaccinated and apparently dangerous. And so, I wrote them a letter. I just answered their three questions. I let them know that as far as the steps that I’ll take to create path to healing, I didn’t know the congregation— I knew they had problems with how I was—with my views. I didn’t think it would affect my pulpit or my ministry at all. I just thought it was a disagreement about a worldly matter. But I had no idea the congregation, that they were—

So anyway, I wrote them a formal response. I said, “As far as healing the wounds, I don’t know who’s hurt, I don’t know who’s so offended.” Like, “All of these things that you’re putting before me, I don’t know who I would approach. I don’t know who— It feels like nobody’s coming to me with this stuff.”

I had no idea that people took so much offense to the choice that I made.

Criss Hochhold
The congregation didn’t, again, didn’t—

Pastor Jason McVicar
Yeah, there’s no indication. Again, everybody— I knew that I was the minority view. I just had no idea that it was the measure of my ministry and my character at that point. And I said that I just had no idea how I would heal wounds that I didn’t know existed. But I also say— As far as the second one, they said they wanted me to detail how I’d be able to perform the pastoral duties.

It was simple: the government had laid it all out and they had given us an ultimatum. They said, “If you require vaccination—and you require proof of vaccination” that “you could operate full capacity.” I said, “I won’t be vaccinated, so if you’re going to require proof of vaccination, I can’t even minister so that’ll take care of that. But if you don’t, if you take option B, we’ll just do what we’ve always done. We’ll do the operational plan.” Which I wrote.

Criss Hochhold
So they gave you the ultimatum that essentially you need to get vaccinated. If not—

Pastor Jason McVicar
No, they never once said I have to get it, they just they kept asking and asking and asking. And the way the letter was written, it was obvious that that was the outcome they were going for. What they were trying to portray was that my ministry was in shambles. What they were trying to portray was that my ministry was going to be impossible without vaccination.

The other thing that they asked was to, “elaborate on what you can do to ensure your congregation’s physical health.” I just I told them that was absurd. Like, you guys can’t ensure your physical; you can’t ensure, neither can I. Nobody can ensure people’s physical health. I told them I would do the things that I have been doing. I’ll abide by all of the actual practices that we had implemented, the operational plan. I’ll do the physical distancing when it’s required. I’ll do the masking when it’s required.

Even when it came to my vaccination status, I was always very forthright with people. I put the ball in their court. I wanted them to know that if they were uncomfortable with my vaccination status, I had a colleague, a pastor friend who would be more than willing to minister to them in person if they wanted. Like, everything was in place to, as far as— Even though I didn’t believe that stuff about me being more dangerous, if they felt that way, I accommodated them.

Criss Hochhold
So you took steps, you said, for people that were not comfortable with you. You said a one-on-one.

Aside from having a congregation on your typical Sunday, church time, you also provided services to people on a one-on-one basis?

Pastor Jason McVicar
Oh, yeah, I did a lot of counseling. There were corporate ministries that I would engage in. So I would do the Sunday service: preaching, teaching, I’d be on the stage with them leading in worship and stuff. And then there’d be the Bible study, and then we had a prayer group as well but I didn’t lead that. I had somebody else leading that. And the rest was all one-on-one stuff. A lot of people from the community—especially when COVID hit, there were a lot of people. Once word got out that there was a pastor in town that would hear you out instead of wait for their turn to tell you why you’re wrong about the vaccines, they started coming to me. And that’s when I started dealing with people who had such crazy struggles. And plus, it was the neighborhood I was in. I was already very well-known, very well-liked in the community, and people were in and out all the time.

Criss Hochhold
Did you advise the board members that you had made arrangements for a vaccinated pastor to take over counseling or other sessions for you if the person you were going to see wanted counselling?

Pastor Jason McVicar
Yeah. Well, when they had written that letter and I wrote my response. At the end of the response, I told them. I was like, “It’s very clear from this letter there’s nothing good is going to come from me defending myself.

[00:15:00]

And you’ve already made it super clear that my judgment in this regard has put me in a place where my ministry is not even— Like, if this is the new measure of my ministry, you shouldn’t want me to be your minister.” And so, I said, at the end of that letter, I was like, “I don’t see a path forward.” I basically said, “It seems to me that nothing short of me taking ownership, taking responsibility for all of these so-called hurts and all of these—”

Criss Hochhold
How about I read it? Pastor McVicar, I have it right in front of me. I can read it.

Pastor Jason McVicar
What’s that?

Criss Hochhold
I said, I have it right in front of me. That way you don’t need to try and refer to memory?

Pastor Jason McVicar
Sure.

Criss Hochhold
Again, this is entered as an electronic exhibit [Exhibit TR-0012i]. And it’s, quote: “To be frank, your letter strikes me as unrealistic, unreasonable, and unfair. It’s clear to me that nothing good will come from me defending myself, and by your own account, nothing good will come from me exercising my own judgment when it comes to these vaccines. For this reason, I believe it is time for us to discuss how we can part ways in a way that keeps both parties (the board and myself) above reproach.”

Criss Hochhold
What was the result of your reply to their letter?

Pastor Jason McVicar
Well, they had called it a closed-session meeting. So I went to the meeting. It was just the board and myself. They took my phone, because they didn’t want it recorded. Anyway, it was one of the craziest things I’ve ever experienced in terms of— I consider it to be abusive. It was, just, they took turns basically reiterating everything they had written in the letter, but it was so much more. Anyway, it was, it was—

Criss Hochhold
What happened within the meeting? Can you give us a brief summation of what happened? And how did you feel about it when you were there? Were you heard?

Pastor Jason McVicar
Oh, yeah. I considered it abusive, to the point where—

Criss Hochhold
Abusive, sorry?

Pastor Jason McVicar
I just let them say their piece after a while. I didn’t say anything after a while. And when they were done, I reiterated that I wouldn’t be getting my vaccine and that they need to deal with that, that they seem to be hyper-focused on this idea that I can be convinced. It was funny, like even at that time, it wasn’t even that I was refusing the vaccine entirely, I wanted to see how the winter played out. Because Omicron was already happening in Europe. Like all these numbers were rolling in, and I was like, “I don’t even want to revisit the issue until the spring time.” I said, “For now I’m not going to get it, and you need to deal with that, and you need to decide what you want to do. Because it sounds like if you really believe what you wrote in this letter, I’m not fit for ministry. If this is the new measure of my ministry and character, I’m not fit. And so, you need to deal with that reality.”

After that they asked me to leave the meeting and I did. And I waited that night for, kind of, confirmation of what they had decided—and I didn’t get it until the morning. And they had decided that they didn’t want to do anything rash and so what they would do instead is they would move everything online, except for the prayer group, because I wasn’t part of the prayer group. So they moved it all online. They asked me not to meet with anybody in person, especially unvaccinated people.

Criss Hochhold
I’m sorry. You were unvaccinated yourself and they asked you not to meet with other unvaccinated people?
Pastor Jason McVicar
Yeah. They ask me not to meet with anybody in person. Basically, self-isolate.

Criss Hochhold
Okay, so was there a reason given why you shouldn’t meet with—?

Pastor Jason McVicar
No. Because at this time everything was starting to open up a little. Everything was open in the government, everything was open in businesses, everybody. It was only our church. As far as I know, there was no other business, no other church, no other government entity that was shutting down. It was just our ministries that were going to shut down. So they shut it all down, asked me not to meet people in person, so I did everything online.

And after that— I’m kind of losing my train of thought here.

Criss Hochhold
So you left the meeting. You were waiting to hear something back from the board that particular night to see how you are moving forward.

Pastor Jason McVicar
Yeah. They wanted to shut it down for four weeks, and they started kind of piling on these restrictions. And so, I had assumed that was a response to my letter. Because in the letter, I had responded to them saying, like, we’ll just do ministry the way I’ve been doing ministry. We’ll abide by the government’s policies, and we’ll just keep rolling forward with our operational plan. And when it’s open, we’ll be open. And when it’s closed, we’ll be closed. And we’ll do what we’ve done for the past six months or four months, or however long it was when we had the operational plan in effect.

And so, they started piling on all these new restrictions of their own accord.

[00:20:00]

Just based on their own opinions of so-called numbers. And I had moved the online, especially for church. I moved it ahead an hour, because nobody else in the city was closed, so I wanted to take my family to church. And so, I moved the livestream ahead an hour and I took my family to church. And I got an email that afternoon, I think it was, from the board asking why I had moved the livestream ahead an hour. And I told them I wanted to take my family to church. After that, I received another letter reiterating those three things. Again—they asked me again, “We want you to,” you know, “tell us how you’re going to protect the congregation. We want you to tell us how you’re going to do ministry.” So it’s essentially, like, “Here’s a whole bunch of new restrictions. Now how are you going to do ministry?”

Criss Hochhold
Pastor McVicar, ultimately, what was the outcome of the conversations in the meetings between you and the board?

Pastor Jason McVicar
At the end of the meetings, I wasn’t going to resign, because I didn’t think I did anything wrong. If they were going to make this the measure of my ministry, I wanted them to fire me for it. Like, if this is the new measure, you’re going to have to deal with it. Like, you’re going to have to be the ones who initiate all of this. And so, at this point, I’m just—I’ve lost 20 pounds. I’m a guy who can’t afford to lose 20 pounds. Like, I was the most stressed I’ve ever been in my entire life. My ministry was in shambles, as far as I knew. So I decided I’d call a congregational meeting, because it was clear they were trying to force something but they weren’t going to be the ones who wanted to initiate it. I wasn’t going to quit. And so, I wanted a congregational meeting. I wanted to bring them into it and say, you know, “Is it appropriate for this to be the new measure?” If they agree, then vote me out. If you disagree, let’s move on, and let’s put this behind us.

Criss Hochhold
And the meeting that you’re referring to, congressional meeting, what is that comprised of?

Pastor Jason McVicar
Anytime you have a decision that needs to be made that affects the whole congregation, you bring the congregation together with the board and you talk about it. You work it out. You hash it out. You create the agenda. You create the documents you need. And so, that’s what I did. I had emailed the board and I told them, “I’m calling a congregational meeting. I need you guys to provide these documents.” I was like, “I need you guys to be the ones who call the meeting, because you guys have been speaking on behalf of the congregation. You’ve been acting on their behalf, so you guys are going to be the ones to do this.”

And they denied that. They said, “No, we’re not willing to call a congregational meeting.” I told them, “You need to revisit the Constitution.” I’m like, “I gave you the option to do it, because you’ve been talking on behalf of the congregation. But I’m calling a congregational meeting one way or another.” They said no. They said they wanted to have another meeting in person. And I said no, I wasn’t going to do that after the last meeting. I was like, I’ve been advised by people not to ever put myself in that position again.

Criss Hochhold
Pastor McVicar. Sorry to interject, but in the interest of time, you ultimately decided to part ways with this church.

Pastor Jason McVicar
At that point, I was just done. I was, like, I can’t do this anymore. It’s too stressful—my wife, my family, all of it was brutal. It was the most brutal thing I’ve ever experienced, so I just wanted to be done. So I didn’t even get to the congregational meeting.

I called up my father-in-law, who’s dealt with this stuff before, and got him to mediate a mutual parting of ways, a mutual agreement to terminate the contract. So fast forward to—I forget the exact date. I’m signing this contract and I’m getting a bunch of text from the congregation congratulating me on my new endeavors. I’m like, “What are people talking about?” And I got several of these texts as I’m signing this document. Finally on my way out, I get another text from somebody asking me if this was really a mutual agreement—like, if the agreement was actually mutual. And I said, “no.” And they said, “Do you want to talk?” So, I got together with them, and they showed me the newsletter where they announced my parting of ways [Exhibit TR-0012g].

Criss Hochhold
I can read that out actually.

Pastor Jason McVicar
Yeah, could you read that? Yeah.

Criss Hochhold
That’s right. And that was on October 27th. The letter—the parting ways that the board chose to award—was as follows: “Jason’s contract has ended by mutual agreement, as he has accomplished all that he can in this ministry, and he will now move on to new endeavors. We thank Jason for his years of service and wish him all the best in his future plans.”

[00:25:00]

Pastor Jason McVicar
So they just flat out lied to their congregation. And I kept on getting these texts and these messages congratulating me. So I didn’t know how to correct them because I didn’t want to be—anyway. So it was just this big mess. And ultimately, over time, and talking with people had discovered that nobody knew. It was just these individuals on the board were acting on their own—their own accord. The congregation, 100 per cent on the deck, had no idea that any of this was even happening in the background. So I had been misled by this letter that had portrayed my ministries in total shambles. Like the congregation was completely in the dark. And now they had lied to the congregation about the nature of my leaving.

Criss Hochhold
So Pastor McVicar, what I hear you saying is that they’ve lied to you and they’ve lied to your congregation.

Pastor Jason McVicar
Yeah. Like, I never would have entered into mutual—if I had known that, especially after talking to people face to face from the congregation, that even though they disagreed with me, this never would have been the approach they would have approved of.

This never would have been the way they would have wanted it done. I never would have entered into those— Like, my ministry was destroyed over this stuff. And, I never would have gone down that path.

Criss Hochhold
Thank you, Pastor McVicar. Unfortunately, we are out of time. I would like to defer to the commissioners for any follow-up questions.

Commissioner Massie
Thank you very much for your testimony. I’m religious, but I’m not practicing like a pastor.

Pastor Jason McVicar
That’s how everyone who is not religious talks to me. They always put that caveat.

Commissioner Massie
I’m a believer. I’m a believer, but I’m a scientist, and I have a hard time to wrap my head around what you’re telling me. Because it seems to me, based on the level of understanding from your people on the board, that I don’t think—correct me if I’m wrong—that they have a deep understanding of the science behind what they are promoting.

Pastor Jason McVicar
Well, one of them was a pharmacist, so he had some understanding, but most of them are just lay people.

Commissioner Massie
Would it be fair to assess that this is more based on faith?

Pastor Jason McVicar
Trust. They gave implicit trust to the people who are talking on TV.

Commissioner Massie
Okay. I’m not a scholar of the Bible, but my understanding is that the reason why humans are alive today is because they benefit from a God-given natural immunity. Have they ever heard of that?

Pastor Jason McVicar
They saw it in me. I never got sick. I never got COVID.

Commissioner Massie
So it seems to me that what you are experiencing—correct me if I’m wrong—is a struggle of faith between two different beliefs: belief in natural immunity, God-given natural immunity, and I can assure you, there’s a lot of science behind it—

Pastor Jason McVicar
I don’t want to speculate on beliefs or anything like that. In the end, they just followed through on what the government put out there. And they did it in what I consider to be a super unethical way, and it kind of blows my mind that they would do that. Never in a million years would I have thought that would have been the way— But I don’t know. I don’t know what their beliefs are. Like, their motivations, their intentions, that stuff is God’s territory. All I care about is what they did.

Commissioner Massie
So what is your option moving forward for your ministry or other ministry?

Pastor Jason McVicar
I’m in full-time ministry now. We ended up moving to Prince Edward Island to be closer to my wife’s family. And from the moment I got there, I was filling pulpits, preaching, and I was asked to apply to a few different churches. And I was super frank. I was like, I’m not dealing with this stuff ever again. I told them, “If I put my name in, you got to tell your congregation exactly where I stand on all this stuff. I’ll never preach it. I’ll never be—I’ll never be heavy handed. I don’t care what people believe about this stuff. They make their own choices. I just want to be left alone with mine.”

I wanted them to understand. I was like, “You just got to make sure they know that I’m not vaccinated. I probably never will be vaccinated, not with this mRNA stuff. Because in the end, nobody cared.” There were several churches who were asking me to apply, even knowing that.

Commissioner Massie
Okay, thank you.

[00:30:00]

Criss Hochhold
No, there are more questions coming.

Commissioner Kaikkonen
I was just wondering—there’s a couple of questions I have. The first one: is there anything in your contract with the church in Fredericton that would suggest this may be a problem if your faith goes against what the world is promoting?

Pastor Jason McVicar
Actually, I stayed away from faith statements about why I wasn’t being vaccinated. So there’s nothing in the contract that would say anything like that. And I stayed away from it. Because, speaking from a place of faith, the Holy Spirit informed the decision I made, but I never appealed to that because I can’t. I can’t. It’s an appeal to an authority you can’t confirm. So, I just never did, I stayed purely with the numbers. “I’m healthy. I don’t need the shot. They don’t stop infection. They don’t stop transmission, so you’re no more protected with me vaccinated than unvaccinated.” Those are my two reasons for not— Yeah, so, I stayed away from it.

Commissioner Kaikkonen
Okay, my second question is: Do you know if the government offered financial incentives to set up church buildings as vaccination centers?

Pastor Jason McVicar
No.
Commissioner Kaikkonen
You’re not aware?

Pastor Jason McVicar
I’m not aware, no, and nobody ever approached us—or at least, not that I was aware of.

Commissioner Kaikkonen
I believe that some of the arguments for churches closing fell to Romans 13. I believe that’s right. I’m just wondering what your thoughts are when Crisstian churches or faith groups would raise the first couple of verses in Romans 13 as an argument for following the leadership of our secular governments.

Pastor Jason McVicar
I did. And we did: We implemented the operational plans. We followed everything. There was no mandate for the church. Nobody mandated anything within the congregation and the government didn’t mandate anything for us. So that’s not an argument.

Commissioner Kaikkonen
Okay, and then my final question is, you suggested that the mandates in New Brunswick were decreasing at a time that these restrictions within the church were increasing. I’m just wondering: At any point in this journey that you’ve just gone through, did you feel like the health authorities or the province were targeting the church or that there was religious—?

Pastor Jason McVicar
Oh, they definitely targeted the church. For one—I don’t know what it was like in other provinces, but I know in New Brunswick—a huge portion of the unvaccinated population were from the faith community. And Dorothy Shepherd approached the faith community specifically, asking that they promote vaccines to their congregations and encourage them to require proof of vaccination in order to boost those numbers to 90 per cent. So they most definitely targeted the churches.

Commissioner Kaikkonen
So are you aware of other churches that went through this same struggle between the congregations and the ministers as a consequence?

Pastor Jason McVicar
There was only one other church that I knew of that went down the road that my church went down. The rest just navigated it fine. Actually, the church that my family and I landed in after all of this stuff, they were the exact same scenario as us. Their pastors were unvaccinated. They just handled it in a way more mature way.

Commissioner Kaikkonen
Thank you.

Criss Hochhold
Thank you, Pastor McVicar. I appreciate your time this afternoon.

Pastor Jason McVicar
Thank you.

[00:34:01]

Final Review and Approval: Jodi Bruhn, August 3, 2023.

The evidence offered in this transcript is a true and faithful record of witness testimony given during the National Citizens Inquiry (NCI) hearings. The transcript was prepared by members of a team of volunteers using an “intelligent verbatim” transcription method.

For further information on the transcription process, method, and team, see the NCI website: https://nationalcitizensinquiry.ca/about-these-transcripts/

Summary

Pastor Jason had spent 11 years working and developing a congregation when the pandemic hit. The Government of New Brunswick, had approached the churches in an effort to get increase the vaccine uptake and wanted them to promote the vaccines among their congregation, and encourage vaccine mandates. The government had implemented a policy that said, if churches would require proof of vaccination, that they could operate full capacity – no restrictions, no masking, nothing. Pastor McVicor wanted to wait a few months before committing to taking the vaccine. The board of Pastor McVicar’s church wrote him a letter indicating that the majority of the congregation and the board felt that his refusal to receive the vaccine was causing division in the congregation due to his “lapse of wisdom that was eroding trust”. This eventually resulted in him being forced to quit to which he later learned that the congregation was not involved with this decision, nor did they want him to leave the church.