[00:00:00]

Jean Dury
So hello, Madame Belleville, we’re going to swear you in.

Josée Belleville
Hello.

Jean Dury
So do you swear to tell the truth? Do you solemnly affirm that you will tell the whole truth and only the truth? Say, “I swear.”

Josée Belleville
I swear.

Jean Dury
In your case, we are dealing with a very particular situation. I had the benefit of watching a little of what happened in your life. So could you tell the Commission about your history in the Canadian Armed Forces, to begin?

Josée Belleville
I served my country for 13 years in the Canadian Armed Forces. My job was ACOP, which is: aerospace operator. Excuse me, I’m an English speaker, so I have a slight accent. Yes, I refused the vaccine, so I was kicked out by the Forces. When COVID started, I was living in Nova Scotia. Then by the time I got kicked out, I was living in Ontario. It’s like living in two different realms because the reality that I experienced in Nova Scotia, when COVID started and everything, was totally different when we moved to Ontario. And yet, we are in Canada. The rules should remain the rules, but it was totally different.
If I start with 2020, I was working at the base operations center in CFB Shearwater. Essentially, my job with COVID was debriefing. I don’t know how to put it, the commander came, then the rest of us. We had all the COVID figures from all the bases: how many soldiers had caught COVID. I told myself that there was nothing alarming for me. I saw that the number of people who had caught COVID compared to the number of people who were recovering and returning to work was appropriate. While I was in Nova Scotia, it wasn’t mandated yet; it was our free choice. Like with all vaccines, it wasn’t something that was mandatory. So life went on in Nova Scotia. We were really in our bubble, the Maritime Bubble. We lived in that. The stores were still open and the children had been taken out of school. I have two small children at home. Everything was fine.

At one point, the base closed, but I continued to work at the Operations Center. One situation that I found odd was that at one point we had a vaccination parade where everyone had to go get vaccinated, but we still had a choice. We were like- Me and another co-worker of mine-we didn’t want to get the vaccine. We had to go; it was a parade. We had to go to the mess where the military usually eat-excuse me, there are military words sometimes. It was at the mess; we had to pass in front of everyone and I felt manipulated. When you are a group of people, you will follow the group of people who get vaccinated. I didn’t like the feeling of everyone being together with our colleagues, the whole base, all going to get vaccinated. Personally, I found it weird. But I refused, I continued to work. Everything is beautiful. That’s it.

In the summer, June 2021, the whole family gets transferred to Ontario. I was then working for NORAD in Ontario. We were transferred to Ontario, to North Bay. Day and night, everything was closed, no more access to Walmart. It was weird. I was in Nova Scotia, everything was open and we had access to Walmart, and in Ontario: no more access. Then, I started to have a little anxiety and to think to myself, it’s a lot different compared to Nova Scotia.

[00:05:00]

I started asking my chain of command, “Is it going to be mandatory? What’s happening?” And then my chain of command would tell me, “Don’t worry, Josée, it’s going to be okay. It won’t get to that point.” I thought, “Okay, I’ll continue to work my job.”

Subsequently, in October with the Prime Minister who was starting- You heard the federal employees on what was about to happen. It’s very formal in the army. We have to follow the rules and so on. So in October, I started to be afraid. So I wrote a memorandum to my chain of command explaining that I would like to have information on the vaccine; I would like to have confirmation. In the past, being in the military, we know that there have already been consequences from [mefloquine], anthrax. I know my history, so it was something that stressed me out. I didn’t want to have to take something in a situation when nobody is being held responsible, as is often the case today, like we’ve been living. So I started writing a memo.

The first memorandum that I wrote, there were three pages with all my questions: What is in the vaccine? My chain of command refused my memo. They said, “Make it shorter.” I redid my memo. I wrote two pages. I gave it back. It wasn’t accepted either. He said it has to be one page. I seized on the most important questions. I tried to make it nice. I gave it to the wing commander.

Finally, he said, “I’m not a doctor, I can’t help you.” But in the army, if you have questions, you ask them higher up, and then the higher ups are supposed to find the answer for you. It has always been this way. So I was a master corporal. It didn’t work. He didn’t want to respond to my memo.

Subsequently, the Prime Minister passed the law saying that all federal employees had to be vaccinated before November 15. It was really hard. It was not an easy decision because I really liked my job. I’m a person who was dedicated, who loved the army. It was my career. I was considering 25 years in the army. My father was a soldier. It was a life that I have always known. But when someone says to me: “Why didn’t you take the vaccine? If you’re vaccinated, you’ve already taken vaccines!” When you enter basic training, you line up and you take them! But this one, I don’t know. There was something stronger than me telling me: “Josée, don’t take it, don’t take it.” That’s it. Right then I decided not to take it. I met with my chain of command. They said, “Okay, here’s the procedure.” It’s very administrative. Every month, I went to meet my chief and my commander. Yes, then a lot of paperwork.

I will always remember my last day. The last day I was supposed to work in uniform was November 11, 2021. I was ready to go to work, then I bawled my eyes out. That day I called in and I said I was sick. I couldn’t believe the last day of my career was November 11, Remembrance Day. Therefore, I didn’t return. From November 15, we were no longer allowed to enter our building. My husband, my two children, are not vaccinated either. We stayed on the military base all alone. No support, no one called us. I became the base reject. Everyone knew it. There were several incidents. I also remember one time on the schedule, when we had a schedule, when we were working, our boss had written my name in red for being unvaccinated. There were things that would never have been allowed in the past.

[00:10:00]

These are medical matters that are supposed to be confidential. It’s all the rules that we had learned in the 13 years of service, they were, like, pushed aside. It was madness by then.

I decided not to take it. I started the procedures in November. I started seeing a psychologist. I was like, “Maybe I’m making the worst mistake of my life.” I didn’t know what I was doing. The psychologist started telling me-the social worker, sorry, he said, “Write a little personal diary,” you know, like, “to vent your emotions and all.” I said, “Yeah, but I’m not very good at writing. That’s not my thing.” He said, “What do you like?” I said, “I like TikTok.” He said to me: “Do TikTok.” I was like, “Okay, perfect.” I started doing TikTok as a way to have a bit of a personal diary for myself. There I documented what was happening, what I was doing, how I was living.

The social worker said, “It’s going to be like a bereavement. It’s going to be like you’re going to go through the same stages of bereavement, from frustration to grief, to everything.” Yeah, TikTok was my vehicle to express myself, to speak. Subsequently, wonderful TikTok, there were a lot of people who started following my channel. Because-I don’t know why-they were following me. It seems they found me interesting. They were following me. Anyway, I gained great popularity on TikTok with 40,000 followers and so on. Yeah.

The process took from November 15 through to June; that was my last day. I had to stay at home. I couldn’t go back, except for the times I went to see my commander and my chief. In June, I had my last day. It’s like the military. I can tell you that monetarily, it had a big impact, because when I called in November to find out about my pension fund, it was X, then I returned in June- Every month, I was calling to find out, “Okay, when are you going to kick me out?” Then I saw my pension fund go down, down, down, down, down. It had a big impact. The fact is that we don’t have unemployment either. I didn’t have the right to unemployment, since I had refused, so I didn’t have the right to unemployment. At that time, I was the breadwinner. Since we had just moved, my husband was unemployed because he hadn’t found a job. It was huge. It was not an easy decision that I made lightly, but yeah.

Then also, like the lady who testified earlier, in the month of January, I went to the Convoy. I took part in the Freedom Convoy. They came through North Bay and I just followed. I was there, I had the chance to experience this euphoria, which was super wonderful. Then, like the lady said, when I watched the news, what I had been through, and what was being said on CBC, it didn’t make sense.

I had my mother too. When I was at the Convoy, I managed to go see my mother. My mother was not doing well following the vaccine. Then in March, she passed away. She had a clot in her heart, kind of like that, randomly. Then she died. That’s when we found out my eldest was pregnant. Then I said to myself, in all this sadness, in all that was happening in my life, I said to myself, there’s something beautiful coming. Excuse me. That’s when I said to myself: my mother died, my daughter is pregnant. You know, one spirit leaves, a new one arrives.

Then we moved to Chicoutimi. We had a house in Chicoutimi, so I waited for my two children to finish school.

[00:15:00]

At the end of June, we moved to Saguenay-in July, right after school. And then everything was wonderful. There, I continued to work on my little TikTok channel as if nothing had happened. And then I said to myself, “Ah, I’m going to be grandma.” I couldn’t wait-excuse me. In December, my daughter gave birth to her daughter. My granddaughter was born. Then the DYP [Department of Youth Protection] came; they issued a “baby alert” and then they stole her baby. They entrusted the baby to me. They said, “Okay, Madame Belleville, we will leave the baby with you.” But that never happened. The reason they won’t let me have the little baby is because of my TikTok activity, because of my views, my values and everything. They say I’m anti-government, I’m anti-organization, and that I’m anti-vax.

So they are using that against me. Because of all this, it’s been five months since I’ve seen my granddaughter. Because I expressed myself. I never said anything mean, but I’ve always presented my life. Here, they are taking all these facts, they are using them against me, my husband, my daughter, my two children, so that we don’t have a right to my granddaughter.

Jean Dury
For the benefit of the Commission, can you explain why your daughter’s daughter was taken away because you expressed your opinions, but why was your daughter taken away?

Josée Belleville
Long story short, in the past-here we’re getting into another matter-my daughter, my eldest, was placed in the Youth Center, where horrible things happened in the Youth Center, the most horrible things you can imagine. We’re talking about nearly five years ago because my daughter is 20 years old, so it happened when she was like 14 or 15 years old. In the past I sued the Youth Centre and we were in the middle of disputing it in court. So I think they did it a bit out of revenge because they’re mad at me. Then they took exception to the fact that I expressed myself on social media, that I didn’t hide. They took it out on me by keeping the little one, although I have two other children at home and I have a husband.

I wanted someone to help me. I asked Jordan Peterson. I asked all the politicians everywhere to help me investigate. The safety of my children is the most important thing for me. I couldn’t believe that this organization didn’t know what they had done to my daughter. So I don’t want this to happen to my granddaughter. Now they take that from me, they’re going to be angry because I denounce them, but it’s because at some point, Quebeckers, mothers- If they are capable of doing that to someone who has served her country, someone who is kind, someone who has always defended the rights of her daughter, what have we come to? We’re really going down a super, super dangerous track.

Jean Dury
Have you had any, we call that a compromise-a security and development of the compromised child? This is how we can . . .

Josée Belleville
In the beginning, the social worker in question had said that it was a conflict between the couple. So I said: “But, she’s not in a relationship.” Then they said, “Yes, but maybe she could hurt her child.” Well, that’s when I said: “Well, do your investigation, leave the little one with me.” The fact that they prevent me from taking care of my granddaughter is the problem.

Jean Dury
But in any case, what I’m telling you is that, definitively, they have to go through the Court and have it declared that-we call that a compromise-namely that the developmental security of the child is compromised. So custody is removed. It’s necessary. It’s impossible not to have done that.

Josée Belleville
I ask you to verify, to investigate. I’m asking everyone, please do whatever because, what’s happening to my daughter is one thing, but I’m a grandma, okay.

[00:20:00]

Personally, I can take care of my granddaughter, okay. I can take good care of her. The fact that they take me for a criminal, as a person who is anti-government, like against me, what has Quebec become? This is serious. I protected my country, I protected my children, I protected my daughter. At some point, I’m asking the people: please help me get my granddaughter out of the DYP ordeal. It really doesn’t look good. We all know it’s another organization that’s based on lies. As the lady said earlier, this is her last chance. Me too, this is my last chance. I need someone to get my granddaughter out of there.

Jean Dury
In any case, no doubt your testimony makes one think. I can’t give you legal advice in a Commission, but definitely. . . .

Josée Belleville
Plus at some point, it’s like, they know I don’t have any money. I don’t work anymore. I don’t have unemployment. It seems like they’re picking on me. At some point, a lawyer costs money. Personally, I just wanted to live my life as a granny, to have peace. I also would like to be able to see my mother in my granddaughter. I can guarantee you that they will be in a rage against me and they are going to come after me for everything I say; they’ll do anything, but I just want my granddaughter. I am able to take care of my granddaughter, and I ask everyone in the world to help me, that’s all.

Jean Dury
We understand. And your message will get through. I can tell you that if you have concerns that the DYP . . . .

Josée Belleville
There have been three foster families. That’s three placements already in five months. This little girl is five months old, and that’s three different placements. If they had just put her in my house, it would have been over.

Jean Dury
So as I told you, I can tell you straight away that, regarding what you are saying here today, I would be very surprised if you had repercussions in Saguenay through the DYP. I would be very surprised. Anyway, thank you for your testimony, which will be heard.

Josée Belleville
Thank you for giving me the opportunity to say it because I no longer knew where, how, what. I no longer knew what to do. Thank you for this opportunity. But even if we don’t talk about COVID, it still has a whole anti-government impact, the judgment of others, misogyny and racism, like, I’m not able to raise my granddaughter. It’s all part of the global dialogue.

Jean Dury
I would point out to you that we say anti-government, but in my opinion, it is not anti-government at all. It is simply an opposition to official government thinking. It’s not anti-government, after all. That’s why . . . .

Josée Belleville
I know, but they’ve gone so far. They even filed a complaint with the DYP in Charlevoix-the DYP in Saguenay filed a complaint in Charlevoix. That’s why I say anti-government, anti-social, anti-organization. The complaint-they wanted to take my two other children from home. Then she removed it. She said, “No, your house is beautiful, your children are okay.” We have gotten to this point in society. We have to watch out for our children.

Jean Dury
Do you have anything else to say? Say it, go with your feelings.

[00:25:00]
Josée Belleville
It’s related. Let’s come back to COVID. I really have no regrets for not having taken the COVID vaccine; I see the people who have had a lot of secondary effects. I just want to tell the world to beware, and always listen to your little inner voice. If something is wrong, listen to it, because it’s something. . . . Listen to yourself. Please just pray, pray, pray hard for my granddaughter, for her to be safe, to come home. That’s the only thing I have to say.

Jean Dury
You are an extreme situation because we have been trying to be aware of what’s been going on in Quebec since the beginning, since March 2020. I had heard that in certain circumstances, the DYP could knock on the door of a family who refused the vaccine. I’ve heard of that, but I’ve never heard anyone tell me that a child was taken because they were against a vaccine. You are the first; maybe there are others, but I personally try to be aware-

Josée Belleville
But unfortunately, we have so many parents who are struggling with the DYP-they are so afraid. It’s again fear. You don’t want to speak out. My daughter, she doesn’t want to talk because she’s afraid. I was there, too, five years ago when it happened. This is yet another form of manipulation. Then the number of mothers or grandmothers who wrote to me to tell me that it had happened to them too-it breaks my heart.

Finally, I am here as a voice, as a grandmother, saying that it has to stop. Because it’s not just me, I’m not the only one in this; there are many like little Alice. You know, there are a lot of them and it’s something that Quebeckers- I think they were saying that one in four families in Quebec was visited by the DYP. It’s just that, somewhere, people still think so wrongly. That’s another thing people think about: “Ah, your child went to the DYP, you must have been a bad mother.” Again, the manipulation: “You weren’t vaccinated, you’re going to kill everyone.”

Jean Dury
In any case, I can assure you that a search is easy to do at the DYP in Saguenay, to find out if there’s a judgment from a judge of the Court of Quebec in Youth Matters who made a decision that said: “We removed a child to put him in a foster family because the parents did not want to be vaccinated.” That can be verified because if that’s what is written, if such a judgment is rendered-

Josée Belleville
They don’t even want to see us. We asked to speak with them and they don’t want to. I made complaints. I followed all the protocols. I lodged a complaint with the Users’ Commission, I lodged a complaint with Citizen Protection, I lodged a complaint with the Youth Protection Rights Office, I went through all the procedures. I tried to call the mayor, I called the MP, I called the MPP, I contacted Jordan Peterson, I contacted the PPC, I told everyone on TikTok, I tried to ask for help, but it seems that because it’s the DYP, oops. . . .

Jean Dury
Not easy. So thank you for your testimony, Ms. Belleville, which will not go unheeded, I can assure you.

[00:29:45]

Final Review and Approval: Erin Thiessen, October 30, 2023.

The evidence offered in this transcript is a true and faithful record of witness testimony given during the National Citizens Inquiry (NCI) hearings. The transcript was prepared by members of a team of volunteers using an “intelligent verbatim” transcription method, and further translated from the original French.

For further information on the transcription process, method, and team, see the NCI website: https://nationalcitizensinquiry.ca/about-these-translations/

Summary

Josée Belleville, une ancienne officière militaire, partage son expérience de perte de son poste en raison des obligations vaccinales et de la discrimination. Elle exprime sa frustration face au manque de choix et à la perte de sa carrière à laquelle elle avait consacré sa vie. Son histoire met en lumière l’impact des obligations vaccinales sur les individus qui peuvent avoir des préoccupations ou des raisons médicales de ne pas se faire vacciner.